Ad Hoc Environmental Advisory Committee MinutesMinutes, Environmental Advisory ad hoc Committee February 16, 2018, 3 pm, ECIA conference room Present, David McDonald, Antoine Forneris, ECIA board liaisons Homeowners/residents: Patty Mann, Secretary (via conference call), Paul Drumright, Peggy Cooke. Robert Blanchet-Road committee, Jerry Gulseth-Conservation Committee. Karen Murry- Facilities&Grounds and Road Committees, had an excused absence Ann Netzow has dropped out of committee for health reasons
Antone Forneris is ECIA Board Liasion to this committee. He said he is the liaison to this committee as his term is up as ECIA Board member on May 6th and he did not want to leave this committee in limbo. He said David McDonald is Co-liaison. Peggy Cooke, Eldorado homeowner/resident said she wrote to the ECIA Board a couple of times regarding her alarm at the chemicals (Herbicides) used on walking paths (i.e., Hike/Bike trails in August 2017) and was asked to be on the committee. She lives across the street from Antone. Antone stated he had known Peggy for 4 years. The rest of the group introduced themselves to Antone and Peggy.
David replied that Karen Murry had said if no one else would be chair, she could. Patty mentioned we need to check with Karen about this as she could not attend the meeting today.
Discussion began.
The November 1st, 2017 minutes of Facilities & Grounds Committee state: Landscape: Elms to be removed from the Pool area are causing damage to the pools pipes and surface flooring and the need is critical to remove these trees. After removal would like Heads Up to use herbicide on cut tree trunks to prevent trees from growing back; everyone in Landscape group agrees that it is necessary to use an herbicide as proposed by Heads up. Also, the description which trees are to be removed is confusing and they suggest confirming which trees will be removed. Their understanding is that there are 3 elms, one of which has a small Russian olive growing among its many trunks at the backwash pool. If the board wishes, they are willing to include the area where the trees are being removed in their landscape plans for 2018. It would make sense to include this area with the scheduled and approved plantings on the south and west sides of the pool wall and the dog park fence.
Motion: To Use an approved Herbicide ( carefully poured and capped off), subject to the Pest Control Policy Ad Hoc Committee’s review, to prevent the Elms from regrowing after cutting down. F&G Unanimously approved. The January 2017 F&G minutes state:
Environmental Ad Hoc Committee: The Committee’s first organizational meeting will be January 19, 2018, at 3 pm at the CC.
Mr. McDonald drafted an Interim Procedure for Pesticide/Herbicide Application to be reviewed by the Ad Hoc Committee.
ECIA board is evaluating health and safety at the Community Center. The February 7th, 2017 the minutes of the Facilities& Grounds Committee state: "Removal of problem invasive Chinese Elms by the pool were discussed. Heads Up would like to remove the trees ( Flush cut) and treat the stumps (drill and apply herbicide and coat holes) to prevent regrowth. They would like to bring in an arborist to discuss options for treatment. Antone agrees that a notification of stump treatment should be sent to Eldorado residents in a timely manner. Nolan stressed that “To open the pool season on time in May, we need to remove the problem elms ASAP to begin pool repairs”. A three-part system was discussed. Arborist to give guidelines, resident notification of herbicide use and product applied in early morning hours(3-4 am) to limit resident interaction. Heads Up would supply documentation of herbicide and duration of the product. GM Isabel will discuss with the board."
1.Tree removal and 2. Stump killing using Herbicides. Antone and David do not know if either of these contracts has already been signed and will find out. To date, the Environmental Advisory Committee has not been given the proposed methods or the proposed Herbicide(s) to be used by HeadsUp and has requested this information along with the cost estimates of HeadsUp Landscaping's bids. HeadsUp Landscaping is the company now on a yearly contract with the ECIA for maintenance of ECIA grounds and Compadres Park ( their contract was extended into 2018 by ECIA board in December). According to David, the issue of the trees at the pool are beyond the scope of their yearly contract and they have submitted additional bids for Pool tree removal and "stump killing" using Herbicides.
The long-standing Integrated Pest Management policy in place with the ECIA was written and accepted by the ECIA as their Pest Control Policy in 1998.
Paul discussed that when a tree is cut its instinct is to "survive" and it will begin to grow shoots and roots. He stated that grinding the stump 12 inches below the soil line will not only remove the stump but will kill the tree roots. The stump grinding should be done at the same time the trees are cut. Paul stated it is not correct to cut the trees and later decide what to do with the stumps as cutting will stimulate new tree/root growth, the stumps must be managed at the time of tree cutting. Patty cited additional research from Arborists and Agricultural Extensions regarding the use of herbicides to kill the stumps/tree roots that state if herbicides are used they must be applied to the freshly cut stumps within 5-15 minutes. Paul Brian Jones is an Environmental Educational Consultant who is available to come and speak to the ECIA about management of the property including the Pinyon trees without the use of Pesticides/herbicides, he covers a range of information including soil building. His fee is $90 for a 1.5-hour talk and $50 to travel. Some members of the group seemed interested in having Paul come speak and Patty asked the group whether to have Paul come down and give a talk to the ECIA and possibly extend it to the larger community. Antone felt we should focus right now on the issue of trees at the pool and suggested Paul come and consult on the method of stump grinding first. Patty told the group that Paul is a consultant and does not do the tree removal and stump grinding himself and that he said we would need to have another company do the actual work of tree removal and stump grinding Peggy suggested we begin getting bids for stump grinding. No decision was made about this. Patty told the group of her personal experience with tree stumps that were left by tree cutters at her former property that drew termites which got into her garage. She said research she has done shows tree stumps, if not removed, are not only unsightly but can draw wood-boring insects such as carpenter ants, carpenter bees, beetles and termites which could then call for further pesticide use. Antone said there is no wood at the pool building. Patty said, termites can move and there is wood in the structures of the adjacent Community Center building, Railroad Building and the "barn" where maintenance equipment is stored. Antone said there is underground piping at Pool near trees and a manhole cover is there, a concern not to damage pipes during any stump grinding/stump removal. Patty stated she is not in favor of herbicides but it is important to share research she has done re herbicide use for Elms. She found different procedures than the one described in Facilities &Grounds committee minutes where HeadsUp Landscaping would" drill into the tree stumps (after cutting the trees down) and apply herbicide and coat holes." Patty said she did not find this method for herbicide application in her research. Patty said, for example, glyphosate is one of the herbicides used for Chinese Elms and if glyphosate is used, the method shown is to paint the entire top of the stump and down the sides with the herbicide. Patty questioned whether HeadsUp had proper knowledge of stump killing and herbicide application.
Patty shared another professional Arborist's information regarding the use of herbicides on the tree stumps. This second arborist stated that Herbicides go into the root system of the trees and then go into the soil. Herbicides can possibly kill other trees and plants in the area (including any new plantings placed where herbicides have been used). He advised Herbicides are not to be used near groundwater or wells due to potential herbicide contamination of wells/groundwater. Note: Some Herbicides used on Elm stumps stay in the soil for up to 2 or more years. This issue of potential good contamination by Herbicides must be seriously addressed before the Board approves any use of Herbicides on the tree stumps at the pool. H, Stump Grinding, an experienced company needed: Patty asked if HeadsUp was the right company does do the tree removal and stump grinding. Antone said they grind the stumps to soil level anyway. Patty brought up that HeadsUp may not have a stump grinder. She relayed information from Taos Arborist Paul Brian Jones that stump grinding is very dangerous and needs to be done by a company who is very experienced. Paul advised it is not correct for a Landscape company to go out and rent a stump grinder if they do not have experience. Patty said that it would be best to have the same company cut the trees and do stump grinding (HeadsUp is being considered for the tree cutting portion of the work). Antone stated they are a very experienced company. It is not known at this time if HeadsUp Landscaping has a stump grinder or is experienced with stump grinding. Peggy asked if we should start getting bids for stump grinding. No conclusion was made re getting bids for stump grinding.
Antone suggested we ask Arborist Paul Brian Jones to come as an expert consultant on the trees at the pool and also suggested we get another expert to consult and mentioned a woman named Ashley Bennett Ph.D. from the New Mexico State University Extension, Antone said they have a building on Rodeo Rd. in Santa Fe. He said Ashley is an IPM expert and this would bring in Integrated Pest Management. Patty stated that she found in her research all the Universities and Agricultural extensions are "pesticide people" and use of herbicides would be their bias. Peggy said she would be willing to contact Paul and Ashley. Peggy had the idea of a "Round Robin" where the experts could present to the group all at once and we could ask questions. Antone mentioned HeadsUp Landscaping could also attend. HeadsUp Landscaping had also suggested bringing in their Arborist. It was agreed Peggy would contact Paul and Ashley and see if they would come. It was agreed that we would have the consultants present their methods within 2 weeks and then the Environmental Advisory committee would meet again prior to the next working ECIA Board Meeting being held on March 15 at 4 pm in the classroom. Patty asked if we should include all the relevant committees at the "Round Robin" based on Isabel and David's idea to have the Pool ad hoc, Landscape ad hoc, Environmental Advisory ad hoc and the Facilities & Grounds committees all meet together with her to discuss the removal of the trees at the pool issue. Patty asked if it might be best to have just a couple of representatives from each group meet together as it would be challenging to get everyone from all the groups together. Antone said Isabel could do a meeting with all these committees if she wished but he wanted to just invite the head of Facilities &Grounds to this proposed "Round Robin" and said he (Nolan) could invite whoever he wanted.
David said Dr. Ann McCampbell had sent information on some of the same natural methods. Jerry said," if we do not consider natural methods we are missing out". He also mentioned Richard (Dick) Fagerlund and wondered if he would be someone to consult with on natural methods. The group wished to know who Dick Fagerlund is. Patty explained Richard Fagerlund is the former IPM Coordinator for the City of Santa Fe, is known as "The Bug Man" and lives in Albuquerque (Dick Fagerlund is not to be confused with The Bugman Pest Control Company in Santa Fe who uses chemical pesticides, herbicides, rodenticides, etc). Richard has a website and recommends natural, non-toxic methods of Pest/Insect Control. Patty stated that if there were an insect problem she feels it would be appropriate to consult with Richard but in this situation regarding the trees at the pool, we need to consult with professionals who had experience removing this variety/species of tree such as an Arborist. The group agreed.
Antone wants to get expert opinions and gather all information so the ECIA Board can back up their decision how best to do this. Robert stated that all the research Patty has compiled is another significant component of information presented to the Board and said members of the committee must present as much information as we can to the Board regarding alternatives. 5. Consultant, Dr. Ann McCampbell M.D: Peggy inquired as to who Dr. McCampbell is. Dr. McCampbell is a Medical Doctor who wrote, along with Jean Stokes Ph.D., the current IPM policy for the ECIA in 1998. She is an MD who has expertise in both Environmental Health and on the toxicity of pesticides. She has worked for many years with the City of Santa Fe on IPM. She is acting as a consultant for the Environmental Advisory ad hoc Committee. Peggy said it was excellent to have someone with knowledge about toxicology consulting with us. The group agreed we wish to have her input. Patty asked if Dr. McCampbell could attend our meetings either in person or by conference call and Antone said "I would love that" and David agreed.
It had been suggested by some members of the committee that we ask for a Moratorium on Pesticide Use until a Comprehensive Pest Control Policy could be written or until the Environmental Advisory Committee had the ability to review and make recommendations on any proposed or planned pesticide use by the ECIA or on ECIA common property. Patty asked the group for their input. Peggy said she felt a Moratorium was not necessary as we are now reviewing the proposed pesticide/herbicide use on the trees at the pool and no other pesticide use is being proposed or planned by the ECIA at this time. Patty asked other members of the group their opinion and Jerry agreed with Peggy, a Moratorium is not needed. Robert stated he felt a Moratorium was not necessary as we had an agreement with Antone and David, our board liaisons, that we would be getting expert opinions. Our committee is being given the opportunity to advise regarding the proposed herbicide use on the trees at the pool. It was agreed we would not ask for a moratorium and would complete the draft Interim Pest Policy so it can go to the Board for approval. 7, Interim Pest Control Policy, Agenda Item 3. David has drafted a proposed "Interim Pesticide Policy" to be in effect until a Comprehensive Environmental Stewardship Policy has been drafted and approved. Patty said not all the changes discussed at our last meeting had been included in the latest revision. She suggested the title be changed to "Pest Control Policy" and has other changes. David asked Patty to email him her changes, Patty agreed. Peggy was given a copy of the Interim Policy as she had not been able to review it to give her comments. The Interim Policy addresses better notification of residents/public if a pesticide application is planned. Committee members will submit any further changes to David so it can go to the ECIA Board for approval.
Patty read part of the proposed Mission statement. Patty wants to see an environmentally/ecologically sound policy Patty is not in favor of pesticides/herbicide use. Patty likes David's idea of an "Environmental Stewardship Policy." 9, Landscaping Practices for Eldorado: Jerry said the Conservation Committee wants to post their write up of " Landscaping Practices for Eldorado" on the ECIA website and wants to know when the revised website will be done. David said it is a long process. Jerry indicated he wanted to wait to post until the process of website revision is done.
Antone says HeadsUp is not promoting the use of pesticides. Antone says no one on the Board is promoting regular use of pesticides. Antone mentioned a staff person who brought in Roundup from home and was using it at the ECIA a few years ago and he was subject to dismissal. David mentioned HeadsUp's use of herbicide on grassy areas at ECIA and Isabel is to get us information on what had been used, the dates of application and where it was applied. Antone said it was a broadleaf clover specific herbicide. ECIA board approved its use. The use of herbicides was proposed by HeadsUp Landscaping last spring/summer during Facilities & Grounds Committee meetings. David stated no upcoming planned pesticide use by ECIA at this time. No pesticides/herbicides will be used for parking lot repairs. David said no work was scheduled this year on the Hike/Bike trails. David read from HeadsUp contract re in their contract it states that No pesticides are to be used on ECIA property without the ECIA Board's approval. Patty stated she is not in favor of pesticides/herbicides and stated this Committee's bias is in favor of less toxic alternatives to chemical pesticides such as herbicides. Peggy, chemicals should only be used as a last resort. Peggy addressed the need for "enforcement" (of any IPM Policy). Patty said the proposed Mission Statement for the Environmental Advisory committee includes "continued oversight". Peggy felt that was not strong enough. Jerry discussed that information on glyphosate is now coming out (re it's toxicity)
Antone said all the committees are "advisory to the ECIA Board". David said we are being given a voice but it may not necessarily "go that way" 13, Vistas article: David said he could write about the Environmental Advisory Committee, an overview of what we're doing and goals and education in Vistas under " Message from the Board", possibly for April issue. David said our charge is a comprehensive policy, to be good stewards of the earth. 14.Summary of meeting: Environmental Advisory ad hoc Committee members are wanting non-toxic methods of Pest control and want to find alternatives to pesticide use for the ECIA. Antone and David decided to wait for any tree cutting until after the next working board meeting to be held on March 15th at 3 pm in the classroom. It was agreed by the group to get information from experts on removal and root killing of this particular variety/species of invasive tree(s) including Taos Arborist Paul Brian Jones who does not use pesticides such as herbicides and IPM expert Ashley Bennett of NM State University extension. HeadsUp Landscaping and possibly their Arborist to be included. The group agreed to have Peggy contact experts who have experience with these species of trees to see if they can come in the next 2 weeks to present their ideas for tree removal and stump/root killing. The committee will then schedule a time to meet again prior to the next working board meeting in March after hearing from the experts. David and Antone to check if the contract(s) submitted by HeadsUp Landscaping for tree removal and root killing are already signed. Questions are on board re exact procedure and what herbicide(s) HeadsUp proposes to use for stump killing. Questions are into Isabel re what herbicide(s) were used on the grassy areas of the ECIA Community Center where herbicides were applied and what dates. The committee, on David's suggestion, will consider moving day and time of our meetings to come just before the Working Board meetings. Patty suggested all members of the committee go out after the meeting and see the trees at the pool, 2 are marked with blue tape and others at pool backwash are marked by yellow tape. Next meeting to be announced. Conclusion of meeting Ad hoc Environmental Advisory Committee meeting Minutes, January 19th, 2018 3 pm Recorded by Patty Mann, Secretary Board Liaisons: David McDonald present. Absent/ill, Antone Forneris (Vice President, ECIA board). Committee members attending: Gerry Gulseth (Conservation committee), Paul Drumright (Homeowner/resident), Robert Blanchet (Road committee), Karen Murry (Facilities and Grounds committee and Road committee), Attending via phone conference call: Patty Mann (Homeowner/resident), Peggy Cooke (Homeowner/resident). Absent, Ann Netzow (Homeowner/resident). David McDonald, ECIA board liaison directed the meeting. 1.David: Mandate for Environmental Advisory ad hoc committee to look at Integrated Pest Management Policy (IPM), the old policy that was developed in 1998. He said it is brief and not much detail and only covers Pest Management. He says the committee is to look at a more comprehensive “Environmental Stewardship Policy” which can include also things like new carpet, new construction, any pesticide application, etc., and that takes into consideration any impact on the environment.
Paul Drumright: Owner/resident for 15 years in Eldorado. Is concerned about past events in Eldorado including the poison (Gopher Bait) placed in the Dog Park, the trees at the ECIA that were sprayed with pesticides and the walking trails that had herbicides applied. Paul is a master gardener, organic gardener, beekeeper and wants to address the environmental impact of using pesticides and herbicides. Robert Blanchet: 10 year resident of Eldorado. An artist, historian, and naturalist. He grew up in Iowa on a small farm and lived in Wyoming for 15 years. In the past 2-3 years, he has been involved with pack rats and cleaning up properties related to that. He wants to consider pests and have a seat at the table of this committee. Karen Murry: Representative from the Facilities & Grounds Committee and Roads committee. A 9 year Eldorado resident, she lives naturally, is a fiber artist and uses no pesticides if she can. She stated she is worried re trees at the Pool, 3 Siberian elms and one with a Russian Olive sprouting from it that need to be removed as roots are affecting pool decking. It was discussed during Facilities and Grounds committee meeting of November 2017 and they are talking pesticide used to kill the tree stumps. Patty asked if stump killer meant herbicides and Karen said yes. Patty asked who recommended the herbicide use and was told by David and Karen 3 landscape companies. Karen said the herbicide to be “very localized, drill down inside stumps and seal the top”. David said the trees are still in place and that this issue was the impetus for (drafting) the Interim Pest Control Policy. Patty Mann: A 7 year resident of Eldorado, is a Registered Nurse with Master’s degree from the University of California, San Francisco Medical Center. She worked in the Newborn Intensive care Unit for many years and also taught Maternity Nursing. She is on this committee as concerned re the health of people, children, pets, animals and the environment as a whole. She was Chemically Injured and as a result became Chemically Sensitive from pesticide application at hospitals and from exposure to toxic chemicals present in new building materials from hospital remodeling and also when a new wing was added on to the hospital. She advocates the use of Alternatives to Pesticides as well as the use of nontoxic products/materials for ECIA facilities maintenance. Gerry Gulseth, a representative from the Conservation Committee which is mostly about trails maintenance. He said people on his committee are generally opposed to all the “CITES” (meaning pesticides, herbicides, rodenticides, etc), opposed generally to any of that use. He said, “in a serious situation which should be well-defined use something not as terrible, use something safer. Not Roundup (glyphosate).” They (The Conservation committee) are working on landscape practices for Eldorado. Peggy Cooke: Homeowner/resident. We lost the connection with Peggy to the conference call and David and ECIA staff tried to get her back on the call without success. An email was sent apologizing to Peggy. We look forward to her participation and to having her introduce herself at our next meeting. David McDonald: Elected to the ECIA Board 8-9 months ago. Is interested in the whole issue of the Hike/bike paths and cracks and the way it was handled with last minute notice to the community. He is a friend of Jean Stokes Ph.D. (who drafted original 1998 IPM policy with Dr. Ann McCampbell M.D.) so is aware of the Chemical Sensitivity issue. He said there was a lot of miscommunication with other board members and Dr. Ann McCampbell, who is a leading authority on Environmental Illness. David says he got involved by talking with Jean Stokes. He spoke of his “Advocacy on the EICA board to take a position to consider people who have Chemical Sensitivity.” David said he is interested in the human level of this issue and “notification is his piece, i.e. anything that could impact some people and how to make sure it (the information) gets out to the community, to give more than 48 hours notice so people can make arrangements for their life.” He is concerned, he says they don’t use pesticides (his household) and is he concerned. Ann Netzow and Antone Forneris were absent from today’s meeting. We look forward to having them introduce themselves at the next meeting.
Patty proposed the following (or some similar) language. “The Environmental Advisory ad hoc committee shall remain as an oversight/advisory committee after the policies are put into effect to ensure guidelines, as approved by the board, are followed.”
David said the intent is some more permanent oversight committee to do a yearly environmental audit and “to police the policy”. He said there is no exact format, these people could be from this ad hoc committee or a different group, this can be put into part of a “comprehensive policy” as to how this can be done.
Patty gave feedback and suggested Rodenticides be added under the definition of pesticide application in the first paragraph. The group agreed. Re: 3.1.1 Patty also asked about whether 21 days notice in Vistas is practical if there is a deadline for Vistas publication which could put off any planned (application)5-6 weeks. David said also with 3 weeks to consider the action (prior to submitting an announcement in time for Vistas deadline) it could be longer. No conclusion or decisions were made about this 3.1.1 line in Interim Policy Re: 3.1.2. Patty asked that in addition to Eblast notifications sent out 2 weeks prior, 1 week prior and 3 days prior to any application that an Eblast also is sent out on the “day of application”. David agreed to this change. Re: 3.1.4 Regarding a Telephone tree being set up. David asked Patty if she would do the telephone tree. Patty said no as it would be too cumbersome, that many people, not just those with health problems, might want to be on a telephone tree and it would be better to consider something like a group text or a recorded phone call from ECIA to those wanting to be on this list. Patty said. as an example, they do a phone call directly to all people on the list for prescribed burns. David said he liked the idea of a group text. No conclusion or decisions were made about this 3.1.4 proposal for a telephone tree.
No conclusion was made about how to notify the school or parents.
Karen and David discussed posts at Agora, Senior Center, Library. David suggested using Information committee. David suggested not using “NextDoor” website as a way of communication by ECIA.
February 16th, 2018 at 3 pm.
Paul asked, “Do we need to spray 3 weeds on a bike trail before we work on it?”
He asked whether these rules (ECIA Pest policy/Interim Pest policy) apply to private property. David said no, they do not apply to private property. Robert spoke of how he learned to hoe/pick weeds, that his property has no weeds, (he mechanically removes them). He said restoration of the landscape can be accomplished.
Some ideas were shared: David: Put the policy in front of membership continuously, put articles frequently in Vistas, etc. Patty: asked How to relay to the Information Committee the information we wish to share so it gets disseminated? How this would occur is not clear. She brought up Flora and Fauna, a small independent group in Eldorado that writes monthly articles for Vistas and sometimes covers these issues (of alternatives to pesticides). She asked who on Vistas newsletter approves the Flora and Fauna articles that appear each month. No one in ad hoc group knows who approves the F&F articles.
Set a goal, an outline of what policy would look like, create an Agenda and identify areas we want to make policy.
NEXT MEETING WILL BE FEBRUARY 16, 2018 AT 3 PM, ECIA CONFERENCE ROOM. Note; members of committee requiring telephone conference calling should let David and ECIA General Manager, Isabel Ugarte know a few days in advance so equipment can be set up, thank you. |